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Thread: NSD #1

  1. Default Re: NSD #1

    Is half hiding in this debate? 😎. Wanna hear half of a version.

  2. #192

    Default Re: NSD #1

    Quote Originally Posted by ctowneagle View Post
    Depends I would say that 2 or 3 years of developing those 2 and 3 star guys and they can be justr ad talented. See us vs. Alabama. The 4 and 5 star kids are able to come in and contribute right away and normally more physically mature earlier in their careers.
    And those 4 and 5 star guys develop as well. And you can't use 1 good game by us as the answer. Look at what we did against WVU.
    Put that same GSU team in the SEC West that year, and we maybe win 1 conference game or 2. That GSU team would not even sniff competing in that league.

  3. #193

    Default Re: NSD #1

    Quote Originally Posted by GSU08 View Post
    And those 4 and 5 star guys develop as well. And you can't use 1 good game by us as the answer. Look at what we did against WVU.
    Put that same GSU team in the SEC West that year, and we maybe win 1 conference game or 2. That GSU team would not even sniff competing in that league.

    Where are there players vs our in the NFL today....It was one game we did well in they were not ready for.

    Dirk E. Sanchez, Overyonder, GA 2001

    Quote Originally Posted by half-n-half View Post
    you missed JDC's point.

  4. #194

    Default Re: NSD #1

    Quote Originally Posted by JDC325 View Post
    Where are there players vs our in the NFL today....It was one game we did well in they were not ready for.
    I don't know how many from that team are in the NFL, but I know they have enough players in the NFL to fill out a an entire NFL Team roster

  5. #195

    Default Re: NSD #1

    Quote Originally Posted by GSU08 View Post
    I don't know how many from that team are in the NFL, but I know they have enough players in the NFL to fill out a an entire NFL Team roster
    Just better coaching and development I guess....but from their depth chart every single starter made an NFL team at least on the practice squad except the starting place kicker....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_A..._football_team

    We all know Saban could just get good three star kids and develop them into NFL players though....

    Dirk E. Sanchez, Overyonder, GA 2001

    Quote Originally Posted by half-n-half View Post
    you missed JDC's point.

  6. #196

    Default Re: NSD #1

    Quote Originally Posted by JDC325 View Post
    Just better coaching and development I guess....but from their depth chart every single starter made an NFL team at least on the practice squad except the starting place kicker....

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_A..._football_team

    We all know Saban could just get good three star kids and develop them into NFL players though....

    Oh absolutely. He could be in the CFB playoff every year with our roster....

  7. #197

    Default Re: NSD #1

    Quote Originally Posted by JDC325 View Post
    You just said you dont think four stars get drafted more often than three....if fours are not better than three how in God's green earth are they being drafted at a higher rate? You think NFL guys care about star rankings? Their drafting just proves the rankings more...

    Also it is not assumed % it is the percentage somebody did some simple math to figure it out...
    You apparently didn't read carefully enough or you're just making things up....here's what I just said earlier in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    You are basing your arguments on fallacious reasoning and strawmans. I do think that 4 star players are significantly more likely to get drafted and get drafted high than 3-stars. It's when when you get outside the bluebloods of college football is when it gradually starts to become a crapshoot.
    Quote Originally Posted by JDC325 View Post
    NDSU is still one out of 130 FCS team not matter how you want to harp on them, they are still an outlier. One divided by 130 again .8% so you are basing your beliefs on because .8% of FCS teams does really well then recruiting rankings are bad while I go off of 99.2% of FCS teams typical results against the FBS and I am and the rankings are wrong...and who of note have they beaten? Iowa? Then they lose to South Dakota state in the same season...we dominated the division for two decades and got our ***** handed to us most DIV 1A games....
    You either ignored what I said earlier or you don't understand it, you just repeated what you already said about NDSU being one out of 130 schools. Tell me again, do programs like NDSU, Georgia Southern, and App have magic 8 balls or professional psychics to know which 2-star guys are going to be 3-star guys? Because they have an awfully high number of "outliers" for it to be credible in my mind.

    That lends credence to what I've said all along that below the very highest rungs of college football ratings are just assigned based on who has offered. They see an NDSU commit and probably just say "FCS commit....2 stars" or "Sun Belt commit...2 stars unless they have multiple other FBS offers".

    Quote Originally Posted by JDC325 View Post
    I guess if App beats Toledo it means the entire Sun Belt is better than the entire MAC and we just ignore all the other OOC games each conference has played?
    Again with the strawman argument.
    Last edited by BillyBob; 21st December 2017 at 02:05 PM.
    Hey TK! Change the culture back!

    If you think TK is the reason we don't have better non-conference football schedules, see this post.

  8. #198

    Default Re: NSD #1

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    The recruiting sites were in their infancy in 2011? Earlier you were calling Garrett Frye an outlier and now that I pointed out seven other "outliers" in that class you're using the excuse that the recruiting sites were new then (they weren't really). Even today, though, NDSU's recruiting class rankings are laughably low considering they've only lost 1 FBS game out of something like 8.

    Want to know what really makes me question the G5 recruiting rankings more than anything? The fact that the MAC's recruiting classes across the board are so much better than the Sun Belt's even though we've beat that league like a drum the past few years.
    I made a mistake ducking into this thread, but I just have to correct some misinformation. Hadn't even looked at it but know this ... recruiting sites were in their infancy in 1995 as soon as the Internet started to take off. Jamie Newberg's "Border Wars" was launched from TV to Alliance Sports Network, which at that time (1996-1998) had assembled a huge audience of online via the DawgVent, BorderWars and a number of huge SEC and ACC fanbases. Rivals.com bought AllianceSports in 2000 and paid a pretty penny to do so.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivals.com

    We were talking about recruiting on THIS site when it was hosted on Rivalnet.com , the precursor to Rivals.com. We were one of the first 16 sites on Rivalnet in 1998, and by 1999 there were 700 sites on the Rivals.com platform. I still have my first check stub from Rivalnet and guidebook (on what they wanted you to do) from 1998.

    There were at least 10 FCS run sites back then, including App, Troy State, JMU, Villanova, UMASS, Nicholls State (why, I do not know, lol), McNeese, and Richmond that I can think of just right off the top of my head. It was rare for a FCS school to get a 3* recruit before signing day, and if a 3* recruit did sign with an FCS they would immediately be downgraded to a 2* after signing day.

    If you've seen recruiting from the backside (inside) on how the entire stars thing works .. well you would be disappointed mostly and realize that it isn't really worth arguing about ... some 3* players are going to be busts and some 2* players are going to be freaking awesome. A 79.99 player going 100% might be twice as good as a 83.42 player giving you half his effort. You get the picture.

    MAC's classes are probably "better" with the algorithm's because of their potential overlap by the evalutors at the lower ratings levels w/ the Big10, Big12 and the northern tier of the ACC.

    I think in the southern regions the grading is marginally better, but that is strictly an opinion. No one can watch enough film in their lifetime to sort out 3000+ FBS level athletes and scale them 1-3000, much less do it in a single year.
    “Gentlemen, we will chase perfection, and we will chase it relentlessly, knowing all the while we can never attain it. But along the way, we shall catch excellence.” ― Vince Lombardi Jr.





  9. #199

    Default Re: NSD #1

    Quote Originally Posted by GSU08 View Post
    And those 4 and 5 star guys develop as well. And you can't use 1 good game by us as the answer. Look at what we did against WVU.
    Put that same GSU team in the SEC West that year, and we maybe win 1 conference game or 2. That GSU team would not even sniff competing in that league.
    Your statement was that you are guaranteed tok have a more talented team if you have all 4 or 5 star players. Might be more talented on paper (how many stars they have), but that doesn't always translate to the field. That's the basis to this whole argument, scouting and recruiting is all a guessing game there are no guarantees. Also if you'd like another example see us vs. Florida.

  10. #200

    Default Re: NSD #1

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle22 View Post
    I made a mistake ducking into this thread, but I just have to correct some misinformation. Hadn't even looked at it but know this ... recruiting sites were in their infancy in 1995 as soon as the Internet started to take off. Jamie Newberg's "Border Wars" was launched from TV to Alliance Sports Network, which at that time (1996-1998) had assembled a huge audience of online via the DawgVent, BorderWars and a number of huge SEC and ACC fanbases. Rivals.com bought AllianceSports in 2000 and paid a pretty penny to do so.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivals.com

    We were talking about recruiting on THIS site when it was hosted on Rivalnet.com , the precursor to Rivals.com. We were one of the first 16 sites on Rivalnet in 1998, and by 1999 there were 700 sites on the Rivals.com platform. I still have my first check stub from Rivalnet and guidebook (on what they wanted you to do) from 1998.

    There were at least 10 FCS run sites back then, including App, Troy State, JMU, Villanova, UMASS, Nicholls State (why, I do not know, lol), McNeese, and Richmond that I can think of just right off the top of my head. It was rare for a FCS school to get a 3* recruit before signing day, and if a 3* recruit did sign with an FCS they would immediately be downgraded to a 2* after signing day.

    If you've seen recruiting from the backside (inside) on how the entire stars thing works .. well you would be disappointed mostly and realize that it isn't really worth arguing about ... some 3* players are going to be busts and some 2* players are going to be freaking awesome. A 79.99 player going 100% might be twice as good as a 83.42 player giving you half his effort. You get the picture.

    MAC's classes are probably "better" with the algorithm's because of their potential overlap by the evalutors at the lower ratings levels w/ the Big10, Big12 and the northern tier of the ACC.

    I think in the southern regions the grading is marginally better, but that is strictly an opinion. No one can watch enough film in their lifetime to sort out 3000+ FBS level athletes and scale them 1-3000, much less do it in a single year.
    And these right here demonstrate another huge problem with recruiting rankings. Are different people evaluating Georgia Southern's players versus App States versus Toledo's and Bowling Green's? If so, it's a complete crapshoot. In science it's frowned upon to take objective measurements like blood pressure at different sites with different people and combining them into one study. With something subjective as judging a small cross-section of a recruits play time to give a "star" rating you've got something not even close to being scientific.
    Last edited by BillyBob; 21st December 2017 at 02:22 PM.
    Hey TK! Change the culture back!

    If you think TK is the reason we don't have better non-conference football schedules, see this post.

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