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Thread: Sun Belt key winnable OOC games

  1. #11

    Default Re: Sun Belt key winnable OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ Eagle View Post
    Also, there are not fans that are making that distinction between G5's and saying I'm not going to a game at Paulson because the Sun Belt is the worst, but I would go if we were the third or second G5. Anyone not going to a game "because the Sun Belt teams inhale vigorously and I don't know who any of them are" would say the same thing if we were in the MAC. Except it would be "because the MAC teams inhale vigorously and I don't know who any of them are" To MOST fans, the G5s are all lumped together in anonymity.
    You may not look at things like that (and I don't) but many will. I'll use Wofford as an example for how it can matter.

    When Wofford first joined the SoCon back in the late 90s they were just another opponent not named Furman or App State. As they got to be more competitive, they got to be a better draw. Of course we've never been able to rely on opponents on filling up seats but they were a good draw for our fans.

    Now obviously today we've got Troy and Ark State in addition to App so it's not like we're in the late 90s SoCon where every regular-season opponent other than Furman and App State was ho-hum where most students left at half time, but if more Sun Belt teams do more consistently well it'll create more teams that are good draws.

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglewraith View Post
    The splits are not even.

    1st gets more than 5th. Also the conference the with Access Bowl participant gets more as well.
    I believe for 2016 (when the Sun Belt finished 3rd) the per-school payout was $1.4 million. For 2015 (when we finished last) it was right at a million. Not life-changing money, but not pocket change, either.

    I mean, as a fan you don't have to care whether or not the conference does well. But if you're going to try and claim it doesn't matter, I'm going to disagree.
    Last edited by BillyBob; 9th July 2018 at 10:54 AM.
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  2. Default Re: Sun Belt key winnable OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglewraith View Post
    I bet Gast gets KSU's best punch that they have. I'm also interested to see how they defend a true option attack.

    No one can rely on stAte to win anything OOC, because their black magic apparently only works on conference games somehow.

    Troy is going to get a rude awakening by Boise.

    Other than that, I don't care what happens with the rest of the conference. The only thing that's important to us is to win our games.
    Just last season Troy lost to Boise with a 4 year starter at QB (recently invited to a NFL camp). If they lose to Boise again this year, with a new QB on the first game of the year, I doubt it will be a rude awakening.

    I could not agree more about StAte, haha, that program is just annoying on so many levels.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Sun Belt key winnable OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    You may not look at things like that (and I don't) but many will. I'll use Wofford as an example for how it can matter.

    When Wofford first joined the SoCon back in the late 90s they were just another opponent not named Furman or App State. As they got to be more competitive, they got to be a better draw. Of course we've never been able to rely on opponents on filling up seats but they were a good draw for our fans.

    Now obviously today we've got Troy and Ark State in addition to App so it's not like we're in the late 90s SoCon where every regular-season opponent other than Furman and App State was ho-hum where most students left at half time, but if more Sun Belt teams do more consistently well it'll create more teams that are good draws.



    I believe for 2016 (when the Sun Belt finished 3rd) the per-school payout was $1.4 million. For 2015 (when we finished last) it was right at a million. Not life-changing money, but not pocket change, either.

    I mean, as a fan you don't have to care whether or not the conference does well. But if you're going to try and claim it doesn't matter, I'm going to disagree.
    Earlier, you said "That, and finishing third versus finishing last in the G5 conference ratings can be the equivalent of adding another money game. " $400K, although no pocket change, is NOT the equivalent of adding another money game.

    The attendance at Paulson on non-weeknight games is pretty flat. We'll obviously get more for Appy, Troy, GagSt because of the history of having played them more. But ULM or ULL being 6-6 isn't going to draw any more people than they would at 4-8 until we have played them for more than four years and have some sort of history there. Last year's debacle not withstanding, we are going to get 21-23K at every Saturday game regardless of opponent. People are going to show up or not show up to Paulson based on how well WE are doing, not how the opponent is doing. The sad fact is, that our attendance is swayed more by uga home games than it is by our opponents' W-L record
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

  4. #14

    Default Re: Sun Belt key winnable OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ Eagle View Post
    Earlier, you said "That, and finishing third versus finishing last in the G5 conference ratings can be the equivalent of adding another money game. " $400K, although no pocket change, is NOT the equivalent of adding another money game.
    But how much money do we net from each of those games, especially those where we have to fly (like Indiana)?

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ Eagle View Post
    The attendance at Paulson on non-weeknight games is pretty flat. We'll obviously get more for Appy, Troy, GagSt because of the history of having played them more. But ULM or ULL being 6-6 isn't going to draw any more people than they would at 4-8 until we have played them for more than four years and have some sort of history there.
    That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that how conference opponents are perceived affects attendance. Do you not agree that Wofford generally brought bigger crowds towards the last years in the SoCon than they did back in the late 90s?

    We play Arkansas State on a Saturday. If we get off to a promising start I bet we have a great crowd that day even though we have little history with them, just because the number of recent Sun Belt championships they have and the notoriety around the conference. When they first moved up they struggled for a while and seem to have just recently hit their stride.

    Would you try to tell me that all other considerations being equal Ark State won't get more of our fans out than Coastal Carolina or Ball State?
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  5. #15
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    Default Re: Sun Belt key winnable OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    But how much money do we net from each of those games, especially those where we have to fly (like Indiana)?



    That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that how conference opponents are perceived affects attendance. Do you not agree that Wofford generally brought bigger crowds towards the last years in the SoCon than they did back in the late 90s?

    We play Arkansas State on a Saturday. If we get off to a promising start I bet we have a great crowd that day even though we have little history with them, just because the number of recent Sun Belt championships they have and the notoriety around the conference. When they first moved up they struggled for a while and seem to have just recently hit their stride.

    Would you try to tell me that all other considerations being equal Ark State won't get more of our fans out than Coastal Carolina or Ball State?
    First, we don't know since we've only played Ark State on a week night so we don't have a Saturday attendance to compare. What I'm saying is that the difference would be negligible (usually a 1-2K swing). Our attendance has more to do with how WE are playing than anything else. Our outliers every year are either weeknight TV games or Thanksgiving weekend games. I didn't do the last years for obvious reasons, but here are the attendance #'s for the couple years before that. Our biggest rival at the time (Furman) was the least attended game on the list.

    2012: 20,100-Jax St 18,400-Elon 20,800-Samford 20,900-Wofford 22,200-Appy 8,900-CentArk (Thanksgiving)
    2013: 16,500-Sav St 13,800-St Francis 16,800-UTC 16,200-Citadel 12,200-Furman 13,500-Western Car.
    2014: 23,100-Sav St 24,500-Appy 23,300-Idaho 18,300-Troy 16,300-ULM (Thanksgiving)
    2015: 23,500-Wstrn Mich 24,872-Citadel 23,551-NMU 14,200-Tx St (weeknight) 15,100-USA (Thanksgiving) 23,400-GagSt
    2016: 21,200-Sav St 25,700-ULM 23,400-Appy 16,800-ULL (weeknight) 16,900-Troy (after we went 1-6 in the seven previous games)
    Last edited by KJ Eagle; 9th July 2018 at 02:43 PM.
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

  6. Default Re: Sun Belt key winnable OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that how conference opponents are perceived affects attendance. Do you not agree that Wofford generally brought bigger crowds towards the last years in the SoCon than they did back in the late 90s?

    We play Arkansas State on a Saturday. If we get off to a promising start I bet we have a great crowd that day even though we have little history with them, just because the number of recent Sun Belt championships they have and the notoriety around the conference. When they first moved up they struggled for a while and seem to have just recently hit their stride.

    Would you try to tell me that all other considerations being equal Ark State won't get more of our fans out than Coastal Carolina or Ball State?
    How ANY opponent is perceived affects attendance, not just conference opponents.

    How does StAte support a theory that overall conference performance matters, relative to drawing attendance, when they are notoriously pathetic in OOC games?

    If college football's perception of the SBC is we are all chasing a StAte program that loses majority of their OOC games, then by default, the SBC is perceived as a weak conference. Are you saying that StAte will draw well for SBC games because they are winning in-conference? Because that seems like it would support a theory that it does not matter how any of our conference members perform OOF when it comes to attendance numbers, right?

  7. #17

    Default Re: Sun Belt key winnable OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLEMAN View Post
    How ANY opponent is perceived affects attendance, not just conference opponents.

    How does StAte support a theory that overall conference performance matters, relative to drawing attendance, when they are notoriously pathetic in OOC games?

    If college football's perception of the SBC is we are all chasing a StAte program that loses majority of their OOC games, then by default, the SBC is perceived as a weak conference. Are you saying that StAte will draw well for SBC games because they are winning in-conference? Because that seems like it would support a theory that it does not matter how any of our conference members perform OOF when it comes to attendance numbers, right?
    Well, obviously it's not possible for very many of the SBC teams to finish with a good record if everyone is 1-3 in non-conference games. I was just using Ark State as an example of a team we have a limited history with that I imagine most would be more interested in seeing us play.

    I can also use Troy as an example...we played them a few times before they became FBS and they were the team many in our fan base pointed to as example of why we could and should be FBS. Do you think people would be nearly as interested in the series with Troy if it weren't for their success over the years in IAA and the Sun Belt?
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  8. Default Re: Sun Belt key winnable OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    Well, obviously it's not possible for very many of the SBC teams to finish with a good record if everyone is 1-3 in non-conference games. I was just using Ark State as an example of a team we have a limited history with that I imagine most would be more interested in seeing us play.

    I can also use Troy as an example...we played them a few times before they became FBS and they were the team many in our fan base pointed to as example of why we could and should be FBS. Do you think people would be nearly as interested in the series with Troy if it weren't for their success over the years in IAA and the Sun Belt?
    I think you may be considerably overestimating Troy‘s level of interest with the casual college football fan (the ones that drive the attendance numbers up).

    If we have had good attendance against Troy recently I would assume it is because of where they have fallen on the schedule, JMHO.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Sun Belt key winnable OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLEMAN View Post
    Just last season Troy lost to Boise with a 4 year starter at QB (recently invited to a NFL camp). If they lose to Boise again this year, with a new QB on the first game of the year, I doubt it will be a rude awakening.
    You don't listen to any of their fans then.


  10. #20
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    Default Re: Sun Belt key winnable OOC games

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    Well, obviously it's not possible for very many of the SBC teams to finish with a good record if everyone is 1-3 in non-conference games. I was just using Ark State as an example of a team we have a limited history with that I imagine most would be more interested in seeing us play.

    I can also use Troy as an example...we played them a few times before they became FBS and they were the team many in our fan base pointed to as example of why we could and should be FBS. Do you think people would be nearly as interested in the series with Troy if it weren't for their success over the years in IAA and the Sun Belt?
    Troy has surprisingly been very under attended by comparison. Part of that is that one time we played them was the last game of the season with the 1-6 meltdown under CTS. I think you are giving the opponent too much credit on who is coming and not coming to a game. The vast majority of our fans are coming to the game regardless. The only major swing in attendance will be a huge rival, or a very well known team. Boise, BYU, Houston, etc are going to be huge with attendance. Any other G5 team we currently have scheduled is going to be 21-23K like every other non weeknight/no Thanksgiving game unless we keep losing.
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

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