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Thread: A question about a QB like this running the Pistol Option at GSU

  1. #1
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    Default A question about a QB like this running the Pistol Option at GSU

    Lead In - Remember that Tracy Ham was turned down by FBS teams because he was 5'10. They wanted to make him a defensive end or running back. Erk said we could use him at QB and no one regret it. **( AS I remember most of GSUs QB, were 5'10 and light in weight especially in their freshman year.)
    We always chose a running QB first that gathered a great grasp of the PJ style Spread Option ground attack and that was as it should be

    *We now run the Fritz Pistol Option. Supposedly much better for an Option QB to throw from. I think the idea in the passing game is not that GSU is going to throw the ball 20 times but increasing the reception rate and gaining more yards per reception 0n the 8 - 13 times we do throw the ball.

    ***Could someone like 5'9 and a 1/2, Anthony Munoz, running from the Pistol be reversed engineered to run the option portion of the attack and allow GSU to throw anytime it wanted to?
    It appears that he is having a hard time getting into even FCS schools because of his Hight. Yet If he were always in the Pistol wouldn't that help him being 5'9 & 1/2 ?

    Bleacher Report - "Is There a Place in CFB for Anthony Munoz, the Country's Most Prolific HS QB?"

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...rolific-hs-qb/

    Anthony's High School stats STATS

    https://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/ant...ball-stats.htm
    GSU Spread Option FOOTBALL - out weighed, but never outplayed

  2. #2

    Default Re: A question about a QB like this running the Pistol Option at GSU

    I believe we can have success with any QB who can run option and cause big plays, no matter his shape, size, or color.

    That said, QB height may be a little more valuable in our current offense, as we don’t use as many of the Run and Shoot-style rollouts that helped short QBs in our old offense.

    Our play-action deep game now has the QB stepping up into the pocket more often, and QB height, plus throwing over the top, definitely helps in that scenario.

    IMO, the “we can throw better from the gun or pistol” claims haven’t been proven yet, at least at GS.

    Ultimately, though, a QB’s height and race aren’t anywhere close to the factors they were during the ‘80s and ‘90s. I still believe we’re better off seeking the best sub-6’1” QBs we can find, but P5 scouts no longer ignore those guys (Murray being just the most recent example).

    Maybe in 2019, we’ll have just as much luck at signing tall, run-first “ATHs” like Jaden Jenkins and teaching them to play QB in our system.
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  3. #3

    Default Re: A question about a QB like this running the Pistol Option at GSU

    Both have recently committed to other programs, but here are two 2019 targets that I like the look of:

    Khalan Griffin:

    https://247sports.com/Player/Khalan-Griffin-46049890/

    https://247sports.com/Article/Khalan...mit-131736865/


    Jordan Smith:

    https://247sports.com/player/jordan-smith-46058121/


    Both chose “hometown” programs. The article about Griffin notes that he picked Rice over us, Army, Air Force, and Navy. Hmm . . .
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  4. #4

    Default Re: A question about a QB like this running the Pistol Option at GSU

    I don’t remember most of our deep home run hitting throws in the flex ever coming on the roll out.
    Too many Urkels on your team that's why your wins low

  5. #5

    Default Re: A question about a QB like this running the Pistol Option at GSU

    Quote Originally Posted by Eskimojoe View Post
    I don’t remember most of our deep home run hitting throws in the flex ever coming on the roll out.
    Go back and watch footage from Tracy and Raymond’s day. We rolled out on probably the majority of our passing plays. One play-action pass I remember throwing for our entire history came off a veer look in which the QB took a mini-rollout to the play-side and then threw to the back-side.

    Even PJ’s recent teams hardly ever tried to set a pocket. The OL splits made that difficult, anyway.

    The nature of the plays in that offense vs our current one (where most things come from an IZ look), means that in our current scheme the QB is typically either throwing screens or stepping up into a more conventional pocket. Height and over-the-top arm action helps (in theory).

    Obviously, these are just a few plays out of thousands, so they aren't "proof," just examples of what I'm talking about:

    Here's play-action from 2018:



    Here are some passes from the "spread option"

    Here's a Run and Shoot (I think)-derived mini roll-out:



    Here's a mini roll-out to the play-side:



    For 5'7" QBs:




    Even when we didn't exactly roll out, look at how play-design negates the need for a pocket.




    Anyway, going downhill aggressively on almost every play ("spread-option"/veer/flex/whatever) means that you don't necessarily need a pocket on most pass plays, so you don't need a guy who can stand in on and throw over the line consistently). The nature of the offense creates a fair amount of space for the QB.

    Our current offense moves more laterally and not "downhill" to the play-side. This creates less space for the QB and requires (in theory) a passing game that's more pocket-oriented.
    Last edited by pete4256; 4th May 2019 at 06:55 PM.
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  6. Default Re: A question about a QB like this running the Pistol Option at GSU

    Size depends on the athleticism of the player. Can a 5'10" QB and out play a 6'5" QB? Yep!

    Does height matter at the quarterback position?
    https://www.stateoftheu.com/2019/3/2...arren-williams
    "The argument for being tall is really an argument for being tall enough. One college quarterback coach told me he feels height is system based, but that in the NFL height matters because of the amount of West Coast Offenses being ran in the league. However in college, if you’re not running a West Coast system, you can get away with being under six-foot-three. He felt that being six-foot-three or taller gives the quarterback an advantage when trying to see in the pocket and the shorter QB’s lose sight lines to their targets."

    The argument for height is just a number
    "A second coach I spoke with is a wide receivers coach and former college quarterback. He felt that height doesn’t matter at all. The justification being that Kyler Murray tore up opposing defenses while standing under five-foot-ten. The offensive coordinator’s job is to create and call protection schemes that will open passing lanes where the read routes will open up. That’s what this coach felt Lincoln Riley did well for Murray and the six-foot-one Baker Mayfield. If you want your quarterback to throw a crossing route the the slot, make sure the QB has time and that the lane is open just past the offensive tackle."


    "The bigger concern than height is hand size, and we’ll get into hand size in more detail later. However, this coach feels hand size will be an issue for Murray as he tries to adjust from the college sized ball to the NFL ball- which is slicker and fatter than the NCAA model. Deflategate aside, the PSI of the football and hand size is really important for a QB when passing in the weather you will encounter throughout an NFL season."


    "Regarding height and passing lanes, let’s take a look at the offensive line of the Oklahoma Sooners and the Arizona Cardinals. The Sooners 2018 offensive line averaged just under six-foot-five while the Cardinals line averages just over six-foot-five. The Sooners also had linemen on the bench that were six-foot-seven and six-foot-nine while the tallest Arizona backups six-foot-seven and six-foot-six."


    "Thus, if Murray can ‘see over the line’ of the Sooners, he should be able to see over the line of the Arizona Cardinals or whomever else drafts him in the 2019 NFL Draft. Another former college quarterback and current high school quarterbacks coach concurred with the sentiment above. This coach joked, “I was six-foot-three and inhale vigorouslyed, Drew Brees isn’t six-feet tall and he’s the most accurate and prolific passer in NFL history.”

    Kyler Murray, 5'10", 195 lb., Oklahoma.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: A question about a QB like this running the Pistol Option at GSU

    Quote Originally Posted by pete4256 View Post
    I believe we can have success with any QB who can run option and cause big plays, no matter his shape, size, or color.

    That said, QB height may be a little more valuable in our current offense, as we don’t use as many of the Run and Shoot-style rollouts that helped short QBs in our old offense.

    Our play-action deep game now has the QB stepping up into the pocket more often, and QB height, plus throwing over the top, definitely helps in that scenario.

    IMO, the “we can throw better from the gun or pistol” claims haven’t been proven yet, at least at GS.

    Ultimately, though, a QB’s height and race aren’t anywhere close to the factors they were during the ‘80s and ‘90s. I still believe we’re better off seeking the best sub-6’1” QBs we can find, but P5 scouts no longer ignore those guys (Murray being just the most recent example).

    Maybe in 2019, we’ll have just as much luck at signing tall, run-first “ATHs” like Jaden Jenkins and teaching them to play QB in our system.
    PETE - IMO, the “we can throw better from the gun or pistol” claims haven’t been proven yet, at least at GS.

    I can agree with you on that. The Pistol Option does allow someone like Munozs more time to scan the field at his hight.

    The question still is can a great passer learn the Option run attack?
    GSU Spread Option FOOTBALL - out weighed, but never outplayed

  8. #8
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    Default Re: A question about a QB like this running the Pistol Option at GSU

    Quote Originally Posted by aristocracker View Post
    Size depends on the athleticism of the player. Can a 5'10" QB and out play a 6'5" QB? Yep!

    Does height matter at the quarterback position?
    https://www.stateoftheu.com/2019/3/2...arren-williams
    "The argument for being tall is really an argument for being tall enough. One college quarterback coach told me he feels height is system based, but that in the NFL height matters because of the amount of West Coast Offenses being ran in the league. However in college, if you’re not running a West Coast system, you can get away with being under six-foot-three. He felt that being six-foot-three or taller gives the quarterback an advantage when trying to see in the pocket and the shorter QB’s lose sight lines to their targets."

    The argument for height is just a number
    "A second coach I spoke with is a wide receivers coach and former college quarterback. He felt that height doesn’t matter at all. The justification being that Kyler Murray tore up opposing defenses while standing under five-foot-ten. The offensive coordinator’s job is to create and call protection schemes that will open passing lanes where the read routes will open up. That’s what this coach felt Lincoln Riley did well for Murray and the six-foot-one Baker Mayfield. If you want your quarterback to throw a crossing route the the slot, make sure the QB has time and that the lane is open just past the offensive tackle."


    "The bigger concern than height is hand size, and we’ll get into hand size in more detail later. However, this coach feels hand size will be an issue for Murray as he tries to adjust from the college sized ball to the NFL ball- which is slicker and fatter than the NCAA model. Deflategate aside, the PSI of the football and hand size is really important for a QB when passing in the weather you will encounter throughout an NFL season."


    "Regarding height and passing lanes, let’s take a look at the offensive line of the Oklahoma Sooners and the Arizona Cardinals. The Sooners 2018 offensive line averaged just under six-foot-five while the Cardinals line averages just over six-foot-five. The Sooners also had linemen on the bench that were six-foot-seven and six-foot-nine while the tallest Arizona backups six-foot-seven and six-foot-six."


    "Thus, if Murray can ‘see over the line’ of the Sooners, he should be able to see over the line of the Arizona Cardinals or whomever else drafts him in the 2019 NFL Draft. Another former college quarterback and current high school quarterbacks coach concurred with the sentiment above. This coach joked, “I was six-foot-three and inhale vigorouslyed, Drew Brees isn’t six-feet tall and he’s the most accurate and prolific passer in NFL history.”

    Kyler Murray, 5'10", 195 lb., Oklahoma.
    All good points Aristo.

    Just because he wont be going to the NFL doesn't mean he wouldn't make a better than good collage QB.
    GSU Spread Option FOOTBALL - out weighed, but never outplayed

  9. #9

    Default Re: A question about a QB like this running the Pistol Option at GSU

    Quote Originally Posted by TALON View Post
    The question still is can a great passer learn the Option run attack?
    Yes, if he has the tools to run the option.

    You have to have a baseline of athletic ability and field awareness—not to mention toughness—to do that. Can a guy who barely has the athleticism (Jaybo, cough, Kenny Robinson, cough) make up for that shortcoming by being a great passer? Sure, as long as we have some receivers.
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  10. #10

    Default Re: A question about a QB like this running the Pistol Option at GSU

    Quote Originally Posted by TALON View Post

    The question still is can a great passer learn the Option run attack?
    Tracy Ham certainly thinks so.

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