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Thread: CCL and his onside kicks...

  1. Default Re: CCL and his onside kicks...

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ Eagle View Post
    From Wikipedia on the topic: Between 2001 and 2010, surprise onside kicks were successful 60% of the time, while expected onside kicks were successful less than 20% of the time.[5] Another study of just the 2005 and 2006 seasons also found similar disparities depending on whether the defense expects an onside kick.[6] Accordingly, some analysts have suggested that the surprise onside kick is underutilized.[7]

    I'm not going to go back to look at every box score to see how many we attempted and how many were successful. It's not many in either case. Maybe Klak already has that info on his GATAdb? Hindsight being 20/20, it was a failed attempt so it makes it ultimately a bad decision. CCL even said as much on the show. But it would amazingly be a great decision if it had worked and if we had scored. In the grand scheme of things it didn't hurt us and gave us something that we can work on and get better at. It's a teaching moment and something that, when we actually need it down the road, we will have some game speed experience on and it will not be the 1st time we have attempted it in a game.
    I don't think that wikipedia stat means anything.

    Some big teams do onside kicks with better success. They have enough depth that they can cut out a few players to specialize in stuff like that. We do not.

    My point is it was a very poor decision for a team like ours. I am too lazy to dig through the stats as well, but I bet someone will come along. I think you will be surprised at the very, very few times it has ever worked for us.


    (I'm not talking about how many times this works in HS-where half the players are just occupying a helmet and processing oxygen into carbon dioxide. I am talking about how many times this has worked for GS. Ever.)

  2. #52

    Default Re: CCL and his onside kicks...

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    I don't think that wikipedia stat means anything.

    Some big teams do onside kicks with better success. They have enough depth that they can cut out a few players to specialize in stuff like that. We do not.

    My point is it was a very poor decision for a team like ours. I am too lazy to dig through the stats as well, but I bet someone will come along. I think you will be surprised at the very, very few times it has ever worked for us.


    (I'm not talking about how many times this works in HS-where half the players are just occupying a helmet and processing oxygen into carbon dioxide. I am talking about how many times this has worked for GS. Ever.)
    So . . . IF statistics were to bear you out . . . GS is just cursed as a program in the area of onside kicks and we should abandon any attempt at developing that weapon forever more?
    Ever devoted to the twin causes of reason and justice . . . ever at risk of waxing verbose

  3. #53

    Default Re: CCL and his onside kicks...

    The best time to kick an onside kick is when failing doesn’t hurt you too bad. We put ourselves in a BAD position when we failed Saturday.
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  4. Default Re: CCL and his onside kicks...

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    I don't think that wikipedia stat means anything.

    Some big teams do onside kicks with better success. They have enough depth that they can cut out a few players to specialize in stuff like that. We do not.

    My point is it was a very poor decision for a team like ours. I am too lazy to dig through the stats as well, but I bet someone will come along. I think you will be surprised at the very, very few times it has ever worked for us.


    (I'm not talking about how many times this works in HS-where half the players are just occupying a helmet and processing oxygen into carbon dioxide. I am talking about how many times this has worked for GS. Ever.)
    I’m not saying it was a great play call, but does it really matter how many times a different coaching staff and different players playing against a different opponent tried a particular play in the past?

  5. #55

    Default Re: CCL and his onside kicks...

    Quote Originally Posted by GATAlac El Dorado View Post
    So . . . IF statistics were to bear you out . . . GS is just cursed as a program in the area of onside kicks and we should abandon any attempt at developing that weapon forever more?
    It’s usually best to ignore jcountry on the subject on GS’s onside kicks.

    That is, until he finally brings us a carefully-documented account of Fritz’s overuse of the tactic.
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  6. #56

    Default Re: CCL and his onside kicks...

    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLEMAN View Post
    I’m not saying it was a great play call, but does it really matter how many times a different coaching staff and different players playing against a different opponent tried a particular play in the past?

    Or did they?
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  7. Default Re: CCL and his onside kicks...

    Quote Originally Posted by pete4256 View Post
    The best time to kick an onside kick is when failing doesn’t hurt you too bad. We put ourselves in a BAD position when we failed Saturday.
    Precisely.

    A high risk/very (extremely) low probability of success call. At a time when it made no sense whatsoever.

    There was no point in doing it right there and CL’s “well, if it had worked, it would have been great” doesn’t cut it.

    The decision to pull something like that was concerning. The lack of awareness that it was such a poor decision is more concerning.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: CCL and his onside kicks...

    Quote Originally Posted by pete4256 View Post
    The best time to kick an onside kick is when failing doesn’t hurt you too bad. We put ourselves in a BAD position when we failed Saturday.
    Did failing hurt us?
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

  9. #59
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    Default Re: CCL and his onside kicks...

    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLEMAN View Post
    I’m not saying it was a great play call, but does it really matter how many times a different coaching staff and different players playing against a different opponent tried a particular play in the past?
    Look, I'm not saying it was the best, most exciting, most awe inspiring play call in the history of play calls either. Just that I see the reasoning behind it and don't have a problem with him trying it there. I'm not arguing that CCL is a genius for doing it. But I am arguing against the "there's no excuse for it" BS.
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

  10. #60
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    Default Re: CCL and his onside kicks...

    Quote Originally Posted by jcountry View Post
    Precisely.

    A high risk/very (extremely) low probability of success call. At a time when it made no sense whatsoever.

    There was no point in doing it right there and CL’s “well, if it had worked, it would have been great” doesn’t cut it.

    The decision to pull something like that was concerning. The lack of awareness that it was such a poor decision is more concerning.

    60% is low to you? You don't have any stats other than TO YOU, it feels like a low percentage play. A long pass is also a low percentage play. Does that mean we should never attempt one?
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

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