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Thread: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

  1. #111

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BullEagle View Post
    So if I understand the information as presented so far in this thread, Appy has recognized that any student who pays the athletic fee is potentially going to attend the games and thereby qualifies as a seat sold, much like all ticket sales are currently counted in the announced number for the same reason.

    As much as I hate the thought that Crapp State might be on to something that has a certain amount of basic reasoning involved, this does have a certain consistency to it that might be worth considering as a first step. It might also render any additional steps as pointless. Their numbers are worth looking at again.
    This is exactly right. Just like we all use common accepted principles in everything we do, we should use the common accepted practices to report game statistics.
    Poster formerly known as gudp1

  2. #112

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BullEagle View Post
    So if I understand the information as presented so far in this thread, Appy has recognized that any student who pays the athletic fee is potentially going to attend the games and thereby qualifies as a seat sold, much like all ticket sales are currently counted in the announced number for the same reason.

    As much as I hate the thought that Crapp State might be on to something that has a certain amount of basic reasoning involved, this does have a certain consistency to it that might be worth considering as a first step. It might also render any additional steps as pointless. Their numbers are worth looking at again.
    To count students as attendees without them attending, they have to be charged in their athletic fee an amount that equates to the same as what a corporate ticket burner would pay, i.e. 1/3rd of the maximum established ticket price. App's athletic fees are almost double GS's, and GS has to contend with that pesky BOR limit on % of athletics budget from student fees that UGA pushed. App's standard in state tuition is $600 less than GS per semester but after fees, total tuition is near identical so about an extra $1200 a year in fees.

  3. Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ Eagle View Post
    So in your future, similar to JCountry and his bowl committees, sponsors, and recruits, the conference alignment is going to happen without anyone from said conferences actually visiting the schools they are talking about bringing into their conference?

    If a bunch of message board nobodies like us know that the reported attendance figures aren't worth the paper they're printed on, don't you think that those who are paid to know such things would already know that they are BS as well?
    No, nothing like jcountry's bowl committee argument, I am well aware that the bowl committees travel. However, conference members decide who is admitted into their conference. Do I think that every member-institutions President and AD are going to attend a football game for every school they are considering to admit? No, I don't think so. Do you really think 10 years from now (for example) if conferences re-align (or merge) and multiple schools have to access multiple other schools to admit that they are going to look back at reported vs actual attendance for 2019? I don't see it, they will find the reported average over X years and compare it to the other schools they are researching.

  4. #114

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GSCBBA1987 View Post
    This is exactly right. Just like we all use common accepted principles in everything we do, we should use the common accepted practices to report game statistics.
    Are we sure there is such a thing as the “common accepted practices”? It seems that everyone has their own formula.
    Ever devoted to the twin causes of reason and justice . . . ever at risk of waxing verbose

  5. #115

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLEMAN View Post
    No, nothing like jcountry's bowl committee argument, I am well aware that the bowl committees travel. However, conference members decide who is admitted into their conference. Do I think that every member-institutions President and AD are going to attend a football game for every school they are considering to admit? No, I don't think so. Do you really think 10 years from now (for example) if conferences re-align (or merge) and multiple schools have to access multiple other schools to admit that they are going to look back at reported vs actual attendance for 2019? I don't see it, they will find the reported average over X years and compare it to the other schools they are researching.
    If we were being considered for conference realignment we would do the legwork for them on us and whoever we were competing with. Should take about a week and less than $1,000. 3-4 FOIA’s and an hour on Excel.
    Ever devoted to the twin causes of reason and justice . . . ever at risk of waxing verbose

  6. #116

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GATAlac El Dorado View Post
    So it’s available. WSJ has done similar in the past, and it’s not that much work for anyone looking to compare a couple or a handful of programs.
    Yes, but many people (including those in the media) don't realize how much variability there is in counting methods. How many know you need to request actual scanned ticket counts from the school? That's really the whole point of that article is.

    Quote Originally Posted by GATAlac El Dorado View Post
    I can think of one potential downside. Whereas ours are currently among a select few numbers that can be taken pretty much at face value, we’d be positioning ourselves among those whose numbers must be taken with a grain of salt.
    I'm not following you, here. Are you saying it wouldn't be worth artificially inflating attendance because we the fans wouldn't have accruate counts of how many people are showing up in person?

    Quote Originally Posted by GATAlac El Dorado View Post
    Question’s still open: How much specifically do you propose we report, and on what specific basis, if any, should it be arrived at?
    There are 59 other Group of 5 schools and the vast majority of them inflate their attendance significantly more than we do. Unless there's some compelling reason they can all do it and we don't, then I don't see why I need to answer that question any more than I need a definitive answer on how to fix our offense.
    "Follow the trendlines, not the headlines." -Steven Pinker (?)

    Regarding football Scheduling.

  7. #117

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    Yes, but many people (including those in the media) don't realize how much variability there is in counting methods. How many know you need to request actual scanned ticket counts from the school? That's really the whole point of that article is.



    I'm not following you, here. Are you saying it wouldn't be worth artificially inflating attendance because we the fans wouldn't have accruate counts of how many people are showing up in person?



    There are 59 other Group of 5 schools and the vast majority of them inflate their attendance significantly more than we do. Unless there's some compelling reason they can all do it and we don't, then I don't see why I need to answer that question any more than I need a definitive answer on how to fix our offense.
    Now, you know that’s not the same. One is something that would be undertaken on a best effort basis amidst a host of external influences. The other is something akin to stating how tall you’d like to be listed as.
    Ever devoted to the twin causes of reason and justice . . . ever at risk of waxing verbose

  8. #118
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    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    I know that we have talked about Ga. State having inflated attendance going back to their FCS days. Now I'm reading that many of the Sun Belt teams inflate their home attendance records.

    Can someone inform me how teams inflate their attendance records?
    GSU Spread Option FOOTBALL - out weighed, but never outplayed

  9. #119
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    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by GSCBBA1987 View Post
    This is exactly right. Just like we all use common accepted principles in everything we do, we should use the common accepted practices to report game statistics.
    But WHY?

    That is all some of us are asking. What do we gain from doing it? No one has given any concrete evidence that these numbers mean diddly squat in the grand scheme of things. All we have gotten is tin-foil hat conspiracies about how recruits and sponsors and conference realignment people won't actually come to campus to see it for themselves before they make major decisions. That's a BS!
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

  10. #120
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    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLEMAN View Post
    No, nothing like jcountry's bowl committee argument, I am well aware that the bowl committees travel. However, conference members decide who is admitted into their conference. Do I think that every member-institutions President and AD are going to attend a football game for every school they are considering to admit? No, I don't think so. Do you really think 10 years from now (for example) if conferences re-align (or merge) and multiple schools have to access multiple other schools to admit that they are going to look back at reported vs actual attendance for 2019? I don't see it, they will find the reported average over X years and compare it to the other schools they are researching.
    BUT.... if "everyone is doing it" like we keep being told, then every member of the potential new conference is going to know that all reported attendance figures are BS and they won't rely on them at face value. Everyone knows that used car salesmen are typically liars and cheats. If you are buying a used car, are you going to take his word for it or are you going to take it to your own mechanic and get the car checked out? They will do their own due diligence and figure it out. Every school doesn't have to send a rep to a game, but I guarantee that they are going to get a report of what happened and what the atmosphere was like from those that actually did go to the game. You act like everyone is making a decision in a vacuum and that all they have to go on is what the reported attendance is. That is not the only box they are checking as to whether or not to make a decision.
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

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