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Thread: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

  1. #141

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ Eagle View Post
    That's a bunch of data, but not an answer.

    Gatalac and I have gone multiple pages of asking the same two questions and not getting answers.

    1) Why inflate numbers?
    2) at what point is an inflated number "enough" to satisfy those that want them inflated?
    The answer to #1 is in #2. It's basically a circle.

  2. #142

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    We're #5 among all 130 FBS teams in terms of scanned tickets as a percentage of reported attendance.

    We're at 90% while the next highest G5 team was around 80%. Less than 1/4th of FBS teams are even above 75%. On top of that, the percentages were calculated on very much a down year for attendance, which if anything would deflate our percentage. I mean, if the spread of percentages were smaller and we were inflating our attendance more than 10 or 15% of the FBS that'd be one thing, but I don't know how you argue that we're not on the extreme end.
    These are all arguments for WHY, which are moot given that I’ve stipulated for the sake of argument that we should.

    Let’s go with multiple choice:

    a) 1.64X (App)

    b) 1.34X (Gag)

    c) + 7,000 (approximate midpoint of Sunbelt exaggeration)

    d) + 10,500 (arbitrary number)

    Those get us from 7th place to 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, and 1st place, respectively.

    What’s your pleasure?
    Ever devoted to the twin causes of reason and justice . . . ever at risk of waxing verbose

  3. #143

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ Eagle View Post
    That's a bunch of data, but not an answer.

    Gatalac and I have gone multiple pages of asking the same two questions and not getting answers.

    1) Why inflate numbers?
    2) at what point is an inflated number "enough" to satisfy those that want them inflated?

    (1). I've already answered this question several times, so let me summarize it one more time: Because they're not just numbers someone on Reddit or some message board compiled, they're official numbers given to and reported by the NCAA and often cited by major media, and because in-person attendance numbers are hard to get and that official numbers can be used uncritically in contexts that actually matter to the program. I've already given you an example of how this is done on something much more important that college football statistics (public health).

    Now, do you have any reason not to do it other than trying to make a comparison to stealing money (which I'm honestly still trying to wrap my brain around).

    (2) Again...why do I need to give a benchmark? No one ever said "those of you who want to fire David Dean and Rance Gillespie, what should our scoring offense be?" or says "if you want to fire Tyson Summers, tell me what our record should be?". I defend TK when people complain we don't get as many Power 5 home-and-homes as other programs with comparable stadium and market size, but you'll never hear me or anyone else ask "well, how many should we get?". And no one else asks because in sometimes you're obviously enough of an outlier in some respect in terms of what you'd expect from your own program that it's just not a judgement call. It just strains all credibility that we can't do what the vast majority of the G5 (including programs with less money and smaller fan bases) can do.
    "Follow the trendlines, not the headlines." -Steven Pinker (?)

    Regarding football Scheduling.

  4. #144
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The 19th Hole
    Posts
    13,592

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by StanMolsonMan View Post
    Because.... We're idiots.

  5. #145

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    This is the worst thread ever. I'd rather read eaglefan200 and Jcountry debate against Opie and eagleskins.

  6. #146

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....


  7. #147
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Snellville, GA
    Posts
    8,543

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    (1). I've already answered this question several times, so let me summarize it one more time: Because they're not just numbers someone on Reddit or some message board compiled, they're official numbers given to and reported by the NCAA and often cited by major media, and because in-person attendance numbers are hard to get and that official numbers can be used uncritically in contexts that actually matter to the program. I've already given you an example of how this is done on something much more important that college football statistics (public health).

    Now, do you have any reason not to do it other than trying to make a comparison to stealing money (which I'm honestly still trying to wrap my brain around).

    (2) Again...why do I need to give a benchmark? No one ever said "those of you who want to fire David Dean and Rance Gillespie, what should our scoring offense be?" or says "if you want to fire Tyson Summers, tell me what our record should be?". I defend TK when people complain we don't get as many Power 5 home-and-homes as other programs with comparable stadium and market size, but you'll never hear me or anyone else ask "well, how many should we get?". And no one else asks because in sometimes you're obviously enough of an outlier in some respect in terms of what you'd expect from your own program that it's just not a judgement call. It just strains all credibility that we can't do what the vast majority of the G5 (including programs with less money and smaller fan bases) can do.
    Name one place that the numbers can be used against us in a way that would actually matter to the program? I've heard the tin-foil hat ways that others think, but none of them are realistic. With you being a bit more logical and data oriented, I'm curious to see what you think because I honestly can't think of one reason that matters other than in some "whip it out and see who's is biggest" sort of way.

    The stopping point matters for this reason: What's the point of coming up with this arbitrary number if not to satisfy some sort of perceived problem. It's not a binary/yes or no question like firing or not firing a coach. Let's say we decide to add 5K to the number? Does 5K satisfy the issue of embarrassment or of someone using it against us? If so, then great. We add 5K to every game. If not, then what is the point of adding anything to the number if we are still getting embarrassed or having it used against us? If someone agrees that we should lie and believes that there is a good enough reason to do so, then they should have thought it through to a point where they can articulate at what point the arbitrary number is no longer a liability to us?
    Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive

  8. #148

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    (2) Again...why do I need to give a benchmark? No one ever said "those of you who want to fire David Dean and Rance Gillespie, what should our scoring offense be?" or says "if you want to fire Tyson Summers, tell me what our record should be?". I defend TK when people complain we don't get as many Power 5 home-and-homes as other programs with comparable stadium and market size, but you'll never hear me or anyone else ask "well, how many should we get?". And no one else asks because in sometimes you're obviously enough of an outlier in some respect in terms of what you'd expect from your own program that it's just not a judgement call. It just strains all credibility that we can't do what the vast majority of the G5 (including programs with less money and smaller fan bases) can do.
    All of those examples are eventualities representing the result of the confluence of best efforts and a number of largely uncontrollable variables and external factors, and where ‘more’ and ‘better’ are perpetual, unfulfillable goals. They would be great analogs if we were talking about how much we’d like to increase ACTUAL attendance. Whereas in the question at hand, you get to literally specify your outcome—in fact, by definition you HAVE to specify one, as that’s the ONLY WAY you can arrive at one.
    Ever devoted to the twin causes of reason and justice . . . ever at risk of waxing verbose

  9. #149

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Pike51 View Post
    It would be more accurate if you added "off" and turned the horse around.
    New saying I'm trying to trademark.

  10. #150

    Default Re: Roll Over. Play Dead.....

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerEagle View Post
    This is the worst thread ever. I'd rather read eaglefan200 and Jcountry debate against Opie and eagleskins.
    That hurts.

    You cut me deep, PE. You cut me real deep just now.
    Ever devoted to the twin causes of reason and justice . . . ever at risk of waxing verbose

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