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Thread: Will the Sun Belt be next

  1. #141

    Default Re: Will the Sun Belt be next

    Do people think Monken was also "call the play and pray" guy, or does that standard only apply to non-flex option coaches?
    "Follow the trendlines, not the headlines." -Steven Pinker (?)

    Regarding football Scheduling.

  2. #142

    Default Re: Will the Sun Belt be next

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    Do people think Monken was also "call the play and pray" guy, or does that standard only apply to non-flex option coaches?
    Thing is, in a GOOD option system, you shouldn't need to adjust every play from the sideline.

    You just check numbers and switch the playside if necessary. If the play's executed properly, the ball should go where it will be most effective.

    In theory, anyhow . . .

  3. #143
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    Default Re: Will the Sun Belt be next

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyBob View Post
    Do people think Monken was also "call the play and pray" guy, or does that standard only apply to non-flex option coaches?

    By the end of 2012 Davis had become a "call and pray" guy. I've tried to block the offensive snot show of 2013 out of my mind so I don't really remember what it was like then as far as pace goes.
    Quote Originally Posted by NO_QUARTER View Post
    I actually considered getting into a debate with Half one time (on something unimportant). But then chickened out because I knew my a$$ was about to get handed to me.

  4. #144

    Default Re: Will the Sun Belt be next

    Quote Originally Posted by pete4256 View Post
    Thing is, in a GOOD option system, you shouldn't need to adjust every play from the sideline.

    You just check numbers and switch the playside if necessary. If the play's executed properly, the ball should go where it will be most effective.

    In theory, anyhow . . .
    Agreed here with how the flex worked. There were checks implemented at the line that accounted for defensive alignment, so adjustments could be made quickly and the play stood a chance of being effective. Also the beauty of a simple system.

  5. #145

    Default Re: Will the Sun Belt be next

    The QB had a lot of control after learning the system, in the early Erk teams. We joked that Raymond Gross was really coaching the team, during Stowers' first year. You could see him changing plays all time. Stowers seemed a bit clueless at first but the team was loaded with seniors and ended up making Stowers look like a hero as the youngest coach in FCS.

  6. #146
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    Default Re: Will the Sun Belt be next

    I think that was pretty standard for all of our option QB's. They had a lot of control at the line. My guess is if you weren't very good at it, you were probably holding a clipboard.

  7. #147

    Default Re: Will the Sun Belt be next

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    The QB had a lot of control after learning the system, in the early Erk teams. We joked that Raymond Gross was really coaching the team, during Stowers' first year. You could see him changing plays all time. Stowers seemed a bit clueless at first but the team was loaded with seniors and ended up making Stowers look like a hero as the youngest coach in FCS.
    QBs checked plays from under center all along. That’s part of the offense, under Erk, PJ, Stowers, Sewak, or whoever. However, that’s a lot different than relaying entirely new play calls from the sideline.

    My point was that well-designed, well-executed option plays move the ball to the defense’s weak point DURING the play . . . in theory, at least. So expecting an option OC to aggressively call plays from the sidelines while the offense is at the LoS (like some other offenses do) is at least somewhat questionable.

    Of course, that’s based on my experience watching PJ’s system and its variants. Based on recent results, our zone-based scheme might need an injection of “modern” playcalling practices (ie, from the box to the sideline to the players on the field).
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  8. #148
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    Default Re: Will the Sun Belt be next

    Quote Originally Posted by pete4256 View Post
    QBs checked plays from under center all along. That’s part of the offense, under Erk, PJ, Stowers, Sewak, or whoever. However, that’s a lot different than relaying entirely new play calls from the sideline.

    My point was that well-designed, well-executed option plays move the ball to the defense’s weak point DURING the play . . . in theory, at least. So expecting an option OC to aggressively call plays from the sidelines while the offense is at the LoS (like some other offenses do) is at least somewhat questionable.

    Of course, that’s based on my experience watching PJ’s system and its variants. Based on recent results, our zone-based scheme might need an injection of “modern” playcalling practices (ie, from the box to the sideline to the players on the field).
    The flex tended to attack the 5 man side of the defense, or at least that's what it preferred.

    Defenses would typically stack strong on the field side to keep us from having space out there, hoping the boundary would keep us contained. However the offense was designed to make use of the boundary, and we would ideally option 2 players on that side to create a numbers advantage. Perimeter blocking was designed to have the alley clean all the way up the sideline.

    So yea it was very well designed. Where you ran into trouble was athletic DL or a really good safety that would come down and disrupt things as we saw at various points.

    What we've been doing the last two years doesn't really have any advantages "built in" like the flex did. It does nothing to create stress on the defense presnap and we've done a poor job of adjusting to defensive tendencies (mainly the DE sitting on the line and influencing the mesh).

    One of the simple things to do if we changed nothing else would be to eliminate huddling and pick up the tempo. We give teams way too much recovery time between plays. If we picked up the pressure and really started hammering them, we might see things change based on disrupting their ability to sub and running the defense sideline to sideline play after play. What are we going to do....go three and out more? We're doing a pretty good job of that so far. Not an ideal change in a vacuum, but it's SOMETHING that could be done and not change a single thing in the playbook.

    That's without changing anything schematically obviously, which is not optimal. Hopefully we've analyzed ourselves a bit and will come out with some tweaks to actually create advantages on the defense like we used to have.


  9. #149

    Default Re: Will the Sun Belt be next

    Quote Originally Posted by eaglewraith View Post
    The flex tended to attack the 5 man side of the defense, or at least that's what it preferred.

    Defenses would typically stack strong on the field side to keep us from having space out there, hoping the boundary would keep us contained. However the offense was designed to make use of the boundary, and we would ideally option 2 players on that side to create a numbers advantage. Perimeter blocking was designed to have the alley clean all the way up the sideline.

    So yea it was very well designed. Where you ran into trouble was athletic DL or a really good safety that would come down and disrupt things as we saw at various points.

    What we've been doing the last two years doesn't really have any advantages "built in" like the flex did. It does nothing to create stress on the defense presnap and we've done a poor job of adjusting to defensive tendencies (mainly the DE sitting on the line and influencing the mesh).

    One of the simple things to do if we changed nothing else would be to eliminate huddling and pick up the tempo. We give teams way too much recovery time between plays. If we picked up the pressure and really started hammering them, we might see things change based on disrupting their ability to sub and running the defense sideline to sideline play after play. What are we going to do....go three and out more? We're doing a pretty good job of that so far. Not an ideal change in a vacuum, but it's SOMETHING that could be done and not change a single thing in the playbook.

    That's without changing anything schematically obviously, which is not optimal. Hopefully we've analyzed ourselves a bit and will come out with some tweaks to actually create advantages on the defense like we used to have.
    Well said.

    I’m not quite sure what the “weak link” is in our current offense, but there is one.

    The veer/flex system didn’t really have a missing link, though that offense could be contained if the defense ignored the passing threat.

    Our offense has been outnumbered at the point of attack FAR too often over the past three seasons (and it happened under Ruse, too). We seem to expect our athleticism to make up for that, and it certainly has at times (see Breida’s brilliant TD run against Idaho in 2015, or a couple of Kennedy’s long runs in 2019).

    But the problem requires more thoughtful solutions than simply being faster than the defense, IMO. Wade Lang has successfully revived Wofford’s flagging flex/spread option system over the past couple of years. I wonder if he could offer any insights?
    Thanks, Rastabot!
    www.247sports.com/porkchops

  10. #150
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    Default Re: Will the Sun Belt be next

    Wider splits on the OL and no huddle would immediately make our offense better. Even if we changed nothing else.
    Quote Originally Posted by NO_QUARTER View Post
    I actually considered getting into a debate with Half one time (on something unimportant). But then chickened out because I knew my a$$ was about to get handed to me.

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